Randy McDonald ([info]rfmcdpei) wrote,
@ 2009-11-07 19:34:00
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Entry tags:economics, forums, language, language conflict, regionalism, sociology

[FORUM] What are low-prestige accents or dialects in your speech community?
Many of the people who meet me are surprised that I don't speak with very much of a Prince Edward Island accent, or with a Prince Edward Island vocabulary. I was born on Prince Edward Island, they reason; I presumably have a long heritage on the Island (I'm fifth-generation, actually). Why, then, would I speak in a manner not indistinguishable from that of urban central Canadians?

There are reasons for this. Perhaps the most important reason for this, the one that underlines the others, is that I'm glad not to speak that way.

Why? It's a non-standard version of Canadian English, not the variant that's spoken in prosperous and culturally not-quite-dominant urban central Canada. A week after I moved to Kingston in 2003, in fact, I finally realized that one thing that had been nagging at me was the fact that I was in a place where the people spoke the way that they do on Canadian television. They speak--we speak?--the variant of English that's the public face of Canadian English, the way that the people in power speak.

Prince Edward Island English? Not nearly so much. It's one of many non-standard dialects of English spoken in the Maritime provinces never mind the very unique English of Newfoundland. What marks these dialects? Unusual accents, unusual vocabularies, and their speakers' association with poverty and isolation and a general lack of cultural capital outside of very narrow bounds, like the folkloric or the anti-modern generally. Take the English of Tignish, in the region of West Prince westernmost Prince Edward Island.

Tignish has one of the most distinctive location–specific accents and original eastern Canada. It is often etymologically described as a blend of English, French, and Scots/Scottish English, and there are many actual English words that possess a unique alternate definition in Tignish, such as "slack". Some of the time a comma, and the word "too" is added after some terms (i.e. "slack, too") to provide emphasis. While English–speakers in nearby towns such as Alberton and O'Leary have an accent and dialect similar to many other communities across the Maritime provinces, Tignish dialect is often described independent from this dialect, and is sometimes not even comprehensible by non–locals.


It's worth noting that the people of West Prince with their English are the subject of jokes told by other Prince Edward Islanders, much like the "Newfie jokes" told about Newfoundlanders, often founded in a genteel-sounding bigotry about these strange people who seem to be generally incapable and stupidly literal-minded, at least in part because they don't speak "proper" English.

I'm not at all sure that other Canadians really distinguish that much between Newfoundland English and a similar-sounding Prince Edward Island English, at least insofar as these speakers' being able to be taken seriously. I quite like being taken seriously. So, at least in large part because of my very strong interest in things and cultural products and events outside of Prince Edward Island, perhaps because of the tendency of women and gay men to have their speech conform with standard norms, and perhaps because a Charlottetown that's home to migrants from across Canada doesn't have as strong a traditional accent as Tignish, I speak something pretty close to standard Canadian English and, I believe, am taken seriously. There's a few people who joke with me about lobsters and potatoes and Anne of Green Gables, I joke about the family of tourists ritually sacrificed every May to ensure a good tourist season and the death fight versus giant lobsters that all adolescent Islanders must do to demonstrate their right to live, and the (hopefully) low likelihood that I'll be taken as an unserious yokel is diminished accordingly, and I get to define myself the way that I want. In an ideal world it wouldn't be this way, but my relationship language-wise with the current unideal world works for me, too.

This sort of thing is common to every speech community, of course, with some accents and dialects being privileged about others. Penelope Eckart's 2005 paper goes into this phenomenon in detail and breadth. In smaller scales, think Received Pronunciation versus working-class language forms in the United Kingdom, say, or standard French against the langues d'oïl of northern France, or Putongua over China's regional languages. I'm sure that you can think of many other examples. In fact, that's what this [FORUM] post is about: what speech forms in your language community are low-prestige? Are they common or relatively rare? Are they diminish or remaining stable, seen as embarrassments or as representing a regional pride?

Discuss.



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[info]koalaninja
2009-11-08 01:34 am UTC (link)
I had never thought about how gay people conform to linguistic norms. Huh.

I don't have much of a (south) Texan accent, despite living here all my life. I still have the "y'all"s and "fixin'"s and what have you. Which I suppose is a good thing, since I think Texan is probably just above Appalachian in accents it's not great to have here, especially after the last 8 years.

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[info]rfmcdpei
2009-11-08 05:29 am UTC (link)
As I understand it, that tendency among queer men and women is often portrayed as a way to acqurie cultural capital: they might be relatively subordinate groups, but they master the language in ways that straight men often don't feel they have to.

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[info]creases
2009-11-08 02:07 am UTC (link)
I have a little bit more of an accent than you. Mine washes out quite a bit when I'm talking to Ontarians, but when I'm tired, or when I'm talking to other Atlantic Canadians, it comes out a bit more. My girlfriend, who is from Saskatchewan and has a very slow, very precise accent, teases me for it but has also remarked in awe that people from Atlantic Canada can speak a lot faster than she's used to.

One of the other PhD students in my dept. is from New Zealand, and she says, of everyone there, she has the easiest time understanding my accent.

I'm rather fond of the accent, actually. It's more syncopated than SCE, which gives it its own rhythm.

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[info]rfmcdpei
2009-11-08 05:59 am UTC (link)
New Zealand makes sense since it has a somewhat similar immigration pattern, in terms of the composition and timing of the waves of settlers.

I think a lot of Atlantic Canadian accents, including the Prince Edward Island, sound nice. It's just, well, (and this may be partly internalized), a lot of the speakers of these accents aren't taken seriously.

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[info]creases
2009-11-08 04:29 pm UTC (link)
A lot of the speakers of these accents shouldn't be taken seriously, but I'm not sure how much the accent itself has to do with it. Most people outside the Maritimes don't really know what to make of Maritimers anyway, so there's a lot of room to set your own expectations. I suspect the idea that the accent isn't to be taken seriously is largely one that's internal to the culture of the Maritimes.

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[info]lux_apollo
2009-11-10 06:29 am UTC (link)
I agree, I like the Atlantic Canadian accent. Perhaps the reason they 'aren't taken seriously' is because the accent just sounds so goddamn comfortable?

;-)

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[info]lautreamontg
2009-11-08 04:39 am UTC (link)
I learned to speak the local pidgen English as an adult. I could always understand it spoken, but was raised never to use it. It's better to use it in certain situations. Speaking regular English is inappropriate in a lot of places and times here in Hawaii. Also living on the mainland for short stints made me appreciate where I come from and thus I no longer fill ill at ease speaking it.
How you figgah, eh?

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[info]rfmcdpei
2009-11-08 05:31 am UTC (link)
That question about the relative acceptability of local language forms might explain part of the reason I felt myself and was seen by others as out of place on the Island. Maybe.

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[info]angel80
2009-11-08 07:32 am UTC (link)
There was something on my radio recently about how Laurence Olivier was sent out here after the war as a kind of cultural ambassador. His mission was to improve the accents spoken on the stage and he was very successful. People hired as ABC newsreaders all had (or were trained to acquire) special accents that were thought more nearly to approximate those of the BBC. The local accent/dialect was considered inferior and requiring suppression. "Serious" culture was to be identified by its spoken accent. As a result Australian actors are very expert in the production of accents that are not their own.

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[info]creases
2009-11-08 04:35 pm UTC (link)
I am consistently impressed with how well Australians can do American accents. Generally much better than Britons can do.

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[info]frumiousb
2009-11-08 08:38 am UTC (link)
We were talking about this last night over dinner. My husband and many of his friends are from the south of Holland-- Brabant and Limburg. We were discussing how making fun of that accent is fair game, and that if you hear it in a commercial it conveys many values like "stupid, non-commercial, farmers".

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(Anonymous)
2009-11-08 03:39 pm UTC (link)
http://noelmaurer.typepad.com/aab/2009/03/accents-brooklyn.html

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[info]jussi_jalonen
2009-11-08 06:08 pm UTC (link)
Dialects represent a regional pride in Finland. There was something of a boom some years ago, with popular comic books translated in different dialects.

Also, the "Blue Sea Film Festival" in the town of Rauma has a long tradition of showing classic movies with simultaneous dubbing in the local dialect - or, as they prefer to call it, language. Ed Wood's "Plan 9 From Outer Space" dubbed in the dialect of Rauma was a particularly psychedelic experience.

I've spoken with the clear, slow and steady Tavastian accent inherited from my mother, with a slight touch from Satakunta, for all my life. To be precise, my mother is from the vicinity of Tampere, where patterns of the local speech have apparently experienced some changes, but the intonation and the accent have still remained the same. I probably tend to use the old-fashioned expressions.

I wouldn't call it regional pride, but it's a part of my identity that I could never give up, it signifies the fact that I'm not only Finnish, but especially from Western Finland, and I can't deny that I'm very happy about it.

It's also quite close to the formal Finnish, since those are the dialects that were used when the written language for the literature was created in the 19th century.


Cheers,

J. J.

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[info]heraclitus
2009-11-09 02:56 am UTC (link)
Kingston's most common accent is an Ottawa River Valley accent. The people you're thinking of in Kingston who talk like people on TV are from Toronto or from the upper-middle class and higher.

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[info]rfmcdpei
2009-11-09 10:35 am UTC (link)
People who aren't townies, at least as much?

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[info]heraclitus
2009-11-10 12:20 am UTC (link)
Pretty much. That's pretty typical of the ORV accent though - it's very much a lower class sound. I delight in discussing intellectual matters in it due to that association (I can imitate it reasonably well due to my time in K-town).

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(Anonymous)
2009-11-09 06:40 am UTC (link)
I've long been interested in accents based, in part, upon being the first generation born in the US. Obviously, my parents both spoke with strong foreign accents. I could actually hear my father's. I remember my best friend in high school once mentioning that when he called me and my father answered the phone he felt like he was making an international call.

In answer to your question, the general feeling in the US is that Southern and New York accents are undesirable.

Though born, and mostly raised in NYC, I don't have a typical New York accent. The base is what I'd call educated Manhattan (which is fairly close to standard American English, but with some regional exceptions -- more later). However, I do have other influences, specifcally French (which was my first language, though I now speak it with an awful American accent) and two years growing up in West Africa (where I picked up enough accents from across the British Empire that I'm still sometimes asked if I'm English). For example, I distinguish between aunt and ant (and plan to keep doing so).

Now, jumping back to educated Manhattan English. . . There are certain anomolies to it. For example, in high school, we'd say "idear" for "idea" (a mispronounciation which I made a conscious effort to rid myself of, and notice that my brothers have dropped as well) though we wouldn't drop the "r" in "neighbor". ("Idear" is a general northeastern pronounciation. Senator Kerry, for example, used it.)

I have talked to various friends and relatives across the country to see if they distinquish between "cot" and "caught" (I do), and that seems to be an eastern seaboard distinction which westerners distain. Likewise, on the eastern seaboard one is more likely to distinguish between Mary, marry and merry (though I'll admit that I personally pronouce Mary and marry the same way). Personally, I like pronoucing different words differently and don't want to change those aspects of my accent.

The other anomaly of Manhattan English is that it's got a huge number of Yiddish loan words. In New York, I'll use them, though I tend not to when travelling. In cases, we'll just translate from Yiddish into English (e.g., we stand "on line" while in other dialects one stands "in line"). It wasn't conscious on my part, but I've now switched to the standard variation thorough osmossis.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_dialect

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(Anonymous)
2009-11-09 12:37 pm UTC (link)
Ain't Manhattan, though. It's just an educated New York accent. I will bet dollars to donuts that you sound just like somebody from Scarsdale or whatever of the Oranges is the rich one.

There are no geographic variants to New York English.

Ask Randy where I'm from, why I know this.

As for the Yiddish, feh. The big curses have been assimilated into standard American, the more obscure (and racist and homophobic ones) are dying out. What, you call people shmeggegges and mishuga with a straight face? You want I should believe that? Not unless you're over 50, nah.

Enjoy. (http://noelmaurer.typepad.com/aab/2009/03/accents-brooklyn.html)

NM

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(Anonymous)
2009-11-10 04:23 am UTC (link)
I will bet dollars to donuts that you sound just like somebody from Scarsdale or whatever of the Oranges is the rich one.>/i>

similar. But, then, so are a Brooklyn and Queens accents.

As for the Yiddish, feh.

I wouldn't claim that I'll use as many Yiddish expressions as someone who had a Yiddish-speaking grandmother. But, through high school, my classmates were at least 70% Jewish. I'd have had to make a deliberate effort *not* not take on some of the vocabulary. But, frankly, I really don't care if you believe me or not.

Alexander

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[info]creases
2009-11-10 04:25 am UTC (link)
Mary Mack's mother's makin' Mary Mack marry me,
My mother's makin' me marry Mary Mack,
I'm gonna marry Mary so my Mary'll take care o' me,
We'll all be makin' merry when I marry Mary Mack!

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[info]rfmcdpei
2009-11-10 10:15 am UTC (link)
I remember when I liked Great Big Sea.

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[info]lux_apollo
2009-11-10 06:27 am UTC (link)
In (former) Kent county of SW Ontario, there are some subtle but detectable dialectical differences between the major towns/villages (and the city of Chatham). The two biggest categories, though, come from the way the francophone community pronounces their English (and some of the bastardizations that have happened to a lot of French names and terms) and also 'farmer' dialect. There are some distinct patterns of speech/accent/vowel formation that suggests farm upbringing (along with some vocab, of course).

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