Randy McDonald ([info]rfmcdpei) wrote,

[BLOG-LIKE POSTING] On Space Colonies (Part 4)

Since the island countries of the South Pacific have been integrated into the world economy--beginning in the 19th century with the colonization by European powers, continuing into the 20th century as island economies have become linked with the wider world through tourism, trade, and war, and enduring into the 21st century--the theme of emigration has taken on an increasingly important role in the region. At first, the main current of emigration was involuntary when Australians in the late 19th century engaged in "blackbirding," kidnapping men from the South Pacific (mostly Melanesia) to labour in Queensland sugar cane plantations. Later in the 19th century, and into the early 20th century, immigration was a more important theme, as recurrent epidemics and the growing demand for labour inside the South Pacific (particularly in Fiji and New Zealand), where the British Empire fostered booming agricultural exports. In the late 20th century, however, emigration from the smaller island countries sharply accelerated:



"Population pressures vary dramatically between different island groups. In the Polynesian and Micronesian countries emigration is an important population safety valve. Although these countries have high fertility rates, the steady stream of people moving to the Pacific rim countries keeps the resident population growth reasonably low. For example, the Tongan population increased by only 0.3% per annum over the last twenty years but the fertility rate is 4.2 births per woman. In the Cook Islands, each woman had an average of 3.3 children but emigration (mostly to New Zealand) kept the population growth at below 0.4% per annum. The population of Kiribati grew at only 1.4% despite a fertility rate of 4.5 children per woman. The population of Tokelau actually decreased -0.9% despite a fertility rate of 5.7 children per woman. Niue's population decreased -1.3% with a fertility rate of 3.5. There are, in fact, more people from Niue, Toikelau and the Cook Islands living in New Zealand than on their home islands. American Samoa's resident population is estimated to be only one third of all the people born there.

On other islands, populations have soared (4.2% in the Marshall Islands, 5.6% in the Northern Mariana Islands, 2.9% in Naru, 2.6% in Palau). Melanesian people choose not to emigrate and populations are rapidly increasing on their islands (3.4% in the Solomon Islands, 2.8% in Vanuatu, 2.6% in New Caledonia, and 2.3% in PNG. Fiji's population growth remained low primarily because of emigration of large numbers of Fiji's Indian population following the racially inspired coup of 1987. (Population figures from SPC 1997)

Where islanders have the ability to emigrate easily, large families are an economic and social advantage. The brightest students inevitably leave the islands to obtain an education in Australia, New Zealand or the United States. French youth go to France for continuing education. Only a very small proportion of those who leave the islands return on a permanent basis. In developed countries, the young people find employment and send funds back to their families. These remittances comprise a major portion of foreign exchange income and are especially valuable on islands where there are few local employment opportunities. There are, in fact, few employment opportunities in Pacific islands beyond the major urban centres. For example, of the 54 inhabited islands of Tonga, only two islands have any meaningful level of local employment, Tongatapu and Vava'u."


The effect on Tuvalu is particularly dramatic, but even for large and relatively viable states like Samoa emigration has taken a relatively large toll, and seems likely to only accelerate. Many times as many Tokelauns and Niueans and Tuvaluans reside elsewhere (mainly New Zealand, their former colonizer) as in their titular homelands, while there are as many Samoans and Tongans in New Zealand as in their ethnic homelands. (The United States has received its contingent of Polynesian immigrants from American Samoa; not only do American Samoans emigrate in large numbers, but hopeful migrants from the former Western Samoa regularly spend time in American Samoa to qualify for residency and migration to the American mainland.)

Why is this? Simply put, the small island-states of the South Pacific aren't nearly large enough to sustain diversified economies. Agriculture and fishing are resource-intensive activities which are not at all cost productive, given the presence of cheaper imports and the popularity of non-traditional foodstuffs. Tourism can support only a limited number of people. Offshore banking and Internet/telecommunications industries provide useful margins, but these industries can't sustain large nubmers of people.
Manufacturing--save for inexpensive locally-used items--is completely out of the question given the small size and general isolation of South Pacific economies. Besides, South Pacific island cultures tend to be conservative and somewhat authoritarian, contrary to Margaret Mead's ill-judged research; Tonga, for instance, is going through some interesting times with its absolute monarch. Why not emigrate?

New Zealand--as the largest and richer South Pacific economy, ahead of French-colonized New Caledonia/Kanaky and French Polynesia as well as American-colonized Hawai'i and Guam--has received the lion's share of these immigrants. There are now as many non-Maori Pacific Islanders living in New Zealand as there are Maori, making for a decidedly interesting future. (Or, perhaps, alternate history.) But then, New Zealanders themselves migrate in large numbers; Australia alone has a half-million New Zealand citizens resident, compared to a total New Zealand population of four million. (http://www.immi.gov.au/facts/17nz.htm)

What does the South Pacific experience suggest for an archipelago of colonies and outposts scattered over the Solar System in a century's time? Simply put, that as soon as interplanetary travel becomes affordable (in terms of time and money), relatively marginal societies will begin to lose people to the relatively more prosperous colonies. This experience has occurred elsewhere: In Scandinavia, there are the examples of the Kalix river valley in Sweden (settled and abandoned in a century) as well as that of northern Finland (settled by Karelian refugees after the Second World War but losing population ever since), while the failure of the colonization effort in the "clay belt" district at the headwaters of the Ottawa River in the early 20th century is also illustrative. In my previous posting, I mentioned the dozen small colonies on Ceres which found themselves overshadowed by the European Union's new Ceres city; why, if living standards are lower in the smaller colonies than in Ceres city and if the cultural distance is not too great, would all of those colonies remain viable entities? Why stay on frigid ice-rock Rhea when, just a couple of days away in travel time, the immensely rich reserve of hydrocarbons and nitrogen known as Titan is waiting (and when Titan City has much better shops and excellent medical facilities open to all comers)?

Colonies which are very distant from the larger and more successful colonies, in terms of travel time and in terms of cultural distance, will be able to remain distinct and suffer only minimal population losses. (At least until the colonists are tired of obeying the Great Leader's dictates on the moral impurities of near-Solar civilization and stage a revolution so they can buy that newly-terraformed land near Elysium.) The definition of distant will vary, of course, depending on the drive technologies available--a Solar civilization with low-impulse ion drives will find intercolonial travel more difficult than one with high-impulse fusion drives. This caveat aside, those colonies which are open to trade, though--including, probably, the very large majority of the Solar System's outposts--will soon suffer from a drain of people and of trade that will end by bringing them still closer into the orbit of Earthly civilization.



Thoughts?

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  • 21 comments

[info]orlandobr

June 23 2003, 10:55:24 UTC 8 years ago

A question.

In several previous post, and in this one, you wrote that we can spect that statal organizations and private companies will invest heavily in the extraction of mineral resources in the Belt, Mars (if memory serves me well), etc.

It would not be easier and cheaper to send robotized (maybe AI) systems to mine the asteroids, that could be able to send the ores to a closer location, i.e. Luna? In that way the mining companies would not be forced to install huge, expensive and distant life-supporting modules for the miners/colonist.

[info]rfmcdpei

June 23 2003, 16:58:02 UTC 8 years ago

Re: A question.

It would not be easier and cheaper to send robotized (maybe AI) systems to mine the asteroids, that could be able to send the ores to a closer location, i.e. Luna? In that way the mining companies would not be forced to install huge, expensive and distant life-supporting modules for the miners/colonist.

It depends on two factors: Firstly, how valuable are the resources in question, and secondly, how reliable are the technologies which could establish a mining outpost without human intervention? If the technologies are reliable enough, then whether or not the resources are valuable or not some automated outposts will be set up. If the technologies aren't reliable, though, though, but the resources are valuable, there will be pressure for human-crewed stations in the deep of space.

There's also the possibility of ideologically-driven colonization, i.e. the European Union or the United States or China or Costa Rica deciding that they need a Vesta colony.

[info]orlandobr

June 24 2003, 11:27:24 UTC 8 years ago

Re: A question.

Firstly, how valuable are the resources in question, (…)

If the extraction of the asteroids’ ores is economically unjustifiable, neither the mining AIs nor the human mining colonies are feasible. Therefore, the only reasons to go there would be prestige or a farfetched military use. (BTW, I doubt Costa Rica would participate in such feats :^)


If the technologies aren't reliable, though, though, but the resources are valuable, there will be pressure for human-crewed stations in the deep of space.

Definitely. The space faring powers would be forced to send people to go there and dig the metals out. But, I wonder, in that case, it would not be easier to send people to mine the oceans’ bottoms? (Yes, I’m a -first season- SeaQuest Freak!)

[info]rfmcdpei

June 24 2003, 13:30:38 UTC 8 years ago

Re: A question.

If the extraction of the asteroids' ores is economically unjustifiable, neither the mining AIs nor the human mining colonies are feasible. Therefore, the only reasons to go there would be prestige or a farfetched military use.

Not too farfetched--look what happened to the dinosaurs. And prestige presumably would be enough to send some colonies out--colonial empires in 19th and 20th century Africa cost more than they were worth, but select segments of the home nations (investors, military and government interests) did quite well.

(BTW, I doubt Costa Rica would participate in such feats :^)

Flag of convenience? ;-)

Definitely. The space faring powers would be forced to send people to go there and dig the metals out. But, I wonder, in that case, it would not be easier to send people to mine the oceans' bottoms? (Yes, I'm a -first season- SeaQuest Freak!)

And there's nothing wrong with that.

That is another problem with space mining: How do you get the metals down to Earth?

[info]orlandobr

June 25 2003, 07:18:02 UTC 8 years ago

Re: A question.

Not too farfetched--look what happened to the dinosaurs.

At first I also though that to collocate a great rock in orbit and then drop it over a city would be... well, very easy. But with a rock you can't "toss-bombing": you can't turn a rock into an "smart bomb", coat it with stealth materials, or put on them own decoys and countermeasures; also, the rocks can't guide themselves in to the pre-programmed targets.


And prestige presumably would be enough to send some colonies out (...)

Right. With a Great Power launching probes, and later outposts, it's almost secure that at least another one would follow.


Flag of convenience? ;-)

Well, a century from now... who knows? :^)


That is another problem with space mining: How do you get the metals down to Earth?

Hmmmm... Ferrous metals could be sent through "magnetic catapults" (?!) into Earth orbit, and processing facilities could be placed in Lagrange 4 and 5... maybe.

Anonymous

July 8 2003, 17:40:47 UTC 8 years ago

Re: A question.

orlandobr,

I hate to point out that you've contradicted yourself within this last posting, but unless you CAN turn a rock into a 'smart bomb', you really can't sling bucketsful of material in the general direction of Earth and just hope they don't accidentally brain someone on the way to the processing plant. (Midcourse corrections are necessary in all but the most local interorbital transfers.)

I'd also like to bring up the U. S. military's mid-twentieth century Project Mjolnir (named for the hammer of the Norse god Thor) under which a heavy, pointed pole made of concrete or tungsten or depleted uranium would be de-orbited from a satellite and deliver a boatload of kinetic energy to a selected target. Lest you feel that this concept is a bit too. . . underdeveloped, given that no such 'phone pole of the gods' was ever delivered, I would like to point to one of the more interesting weapons used in the recent effort in Mesopotamia. It consisted of a 'shape', essentially a concrete-filled training bomb, with a GPS-controlled package of guidance fins and delivered with unprecedented precision on targets in close proximity to mosques, hospitals, schools, homes and other places that might have suffered 'collateral damage' from a traditional exploding bomb. A half-ton of concrete delivered at a couple of hundred miles per hour from a mile or two up, brings with it a smaller, but still considerable, imitation of the 'boatload' of kinetic energy I mentioned above. (A 'canoeload'?) Sufficient to turn a main battle tank or anti-aircraft battery into scrap iron.

--Mike Sargent

[info]orlandobr

July 9 2003, 08:33:46 UTC 8 years ago

Re: A question.

First, thank you very much Mike, for take some of your spare time to comment.

(...)but unless you CAN turn a rock into a 'smart bomb', you really can't sling bucketsful of material in the general direction of Earth and just hope they don't accidentally brain someone on the way to the processing plant (...)

Good point. I'm very very far from being an expert –it would be very arrogant to present myself in such way-, but it's not easier to send a large block of mineral from, say, the Belt, to a “point” on Earth orbit, than to send a rock from Earth orbit against a quite specific point, something as “tangible” as a main battle tank or anti-aircraft battery? (no, it’s not a rhetorical question).

Both things, a half-ton pole of concrete or a huge chunk of mineral, obey the laws of physics, and therefore they will work under the same principles; but unlike the chunk of mineral, the satellite and the pole would be military objectives, with a disturbing tendency to be knocked down in case of war.

When I posted my comment, I was thinking in “city busters” (remember the dinosaurs?), not in precision weapons: therefore, a big rock used as a “city buster” becomes a bit far-fetched idea.

I'd also like to bring up the U. S. military's mid-twentieth century Project Mjolnir (named for the hammer of the Norse god Thor) under which a heavy, pointed pole made of concrete or tungsten or depleted uranium would be de-orbited from a satellite and deliver a boatload of kinetic energy to a selected target. Lest you feel that this concept is a bit too. . . underdeveloped, given that no such 'phone pole of the gods' was ever delivered, (...)

Using space-mounted artillery to influence ground actions would become a waste of time and effort; the problem of supplying the artillery meant that the satellites would soon run out of ammunition and become useless. Since you are thinking of kinetic-kill satellites such as the Mjolnir concept (as you explain it), given the relatively small ammunition load of the average Mjolnir satellite, only prime targets would be worth shooting, and then the problem of identifying those prime targets would arise (and no, I don’t think a main battle tank or an AA battery could serve as our prime target).

Now, I think that such problem can be bypassed by deploying huge particle beam cannons in medium orbit, beyond the range of simple anti-sat weapons. The cannons didn't need ammunition -solar arrays provided the necessary power- and could remain in space unsupplied for long periods (though eventually the crew, if needed at all, would need re-supply). Unless you feel that this concept is a bit too. . . underdeveloped, given that no such 'thunder of the gods' was ever delivered…

Although, I think we both agree with the idea that without some way to neutralize or match orbital weapons (like beam cannons), surface warfare would be much more difficult.

Again, thank you very much for your time. Chao.

(BTW, “the recent effort in Mesopotamia” is definitely the most amiable –and therefore the most loathsome- euphemism for the unjustified invasion and occupation of Iraq I’ve ever seen.)

Anonymous

July 10 2003, 12:15:39 UTC 8 years ago

Re: A question.

Orlando -

First, for the record I'd like to declare my lack of formal credentials in this area, I am simply a reasonably well-read layman (B. S. Social Sciences) with a rusty understanding of beginning calculus and a lifelong affection for, and study of, space travel.

In your response, you wrote:

but it's not easier to send a large block of mineral from, say, the Belt, to a 'point' on Earth orbit, than to send a rock from Earth orbit against a quite specific point, something as 'tangible' as a main battle tank or anti-aircraft battery? (no, it’s not a rhetorical question).

and in the following two paragraphs you seem to imply that, because of their military nature, KE (kinetic energy) launchers and projectiles pose a more complex problem than moving an unspecified ('large') mass from an arbitrary location in the main asteroid belt to a relatively specific location in the Earth - Moon - Sun system.

Let's examine some of the factors involved in each proposition to see what we are up against. (By the way, all of my data for main-belt asteroids comes from http://www.solstation.com/stars/asteroid.htm)

The first issue to be considered is distance. Assuming, for the moment and for the sake of simplicity, that we are dealing with bodies at rest and classical mechanics, the two proposed intercepts look like this: (All variable numbers, such as projectile sizes and so forth, have been chosen to make the math easier.)

Intercept 1 (A 'smart-rock' from Low Earth Orbit [LEO] to a "specific point, something "tangible"", referred to in American military parlance.)

projectile cross sectional area: 0.1 square meters (I'm envisioning a long, skinny dart about as big around as a man's lower leg.)

target area: 10 square meters (a box just a bit more than 3 meters on a side.)

distance from launcher to target: 200 kilometers (one generally-accepted definition of LEO begins at about 107 kilometers)

(brief sound of gears grinding as I recall my trigonometry. . .)

From the point of view of the launcher, the target is 0.00002 radians (0.0009 degrees) across.

A (soccer) football, viewed from 100 meters away is 0.003 radians (0.172 degrees).

Intercept 2 (a 'large' chunk of asteroid material from the main belt to a 'city-sized' target somewhere near the Earth - Moon system)

projectile cross sectional area: 31,416 square meters (pi * 1/2 diameter squared) According to solstation, "As of late 2001, no known asteroid larger than 200 meters (656 feet) across has been found to rotate faster than once every 2.2 hours. As a result, planetary astronomers infer that, over time, repeated collisions appear to have reduced most asteroids larger than a couple hundred meters (or yards) into "rubble piles" that are only loosely held by their weak gravity, which fly apart if spun too fast."

target area: 100 square kilometers (a box ten kilometers on a side, approximating the heart of a city or the area surrounding an orbital processing facility or moonbase.)

distance from launcher to target: 254,437,775 kilometers (1.7 Astronomical Units), give or take. We'll use 250,000,000 kilometers

From the point of view of the space-miner, the target is 0.00000004 radians (0.0000023 degrees) across.

Speaking simply from the perspective of the player shooting on goal, the space-miner's feat is about 500 times more difficult than the space-warrior's.

(This posting has already gotten out of hand, so I won't go into some of the other physics that make the space-miner's job rough.)

I would, however, like to add a bit in defense of my phraseology regarding recent events in the Middle East. My intent was never to diminish the significance of the action in question, but instead to respect the high intellectual caliber of Mr. McDonald's work by not characterizing it either positively or negatively. If, in that effort, I have given offense to yourself or to Mr. McDonald I offer sincere apology and a promise to make better effort in the future.

Mike Sargent
Colorado Springs, Colorado, USA

Anonymous

July 10 2003, 12:38:38 UTC 8 years ago

Re: A question.

Oooops, under 'Intercept 1' I forgot to finish my sentence: Referred to in United States military parlance [yes, we do share the western hemisphere with other nations, even if we seldom speak or write as if we do.] -- begin omission -- as a point target as distinct from an area target. -- end omission--.

Sorry.

Mike Sargent

[info]rfmcdpei

July 10 2003, 12:42:29 UTC 8 years ago

Re: A question.

On the question of the language used to describe the recent war in Iraq, I've no objection to it. Hell, I think I like it--one might as well use humour rather than anything else. ;-)

More on your excellent replies later. And thanks for the compliment!

[info]orlandobr

July 11 2003, 08:58:23 UTC 8 years ago


I’m glad to receive your response, including a hyperlink to your sources. The internet has changed the way debates can occur. You can not only send a response to someone, but also include the links to the reference material. It's like having an argument in a library, and being able to run over to a stack, pull out a book and open it, and say "see for yourself!" Thank you very much for answer my question.

and in the following two paragraphs you seem to imply that, because of their military nature, KE (kinetic energy) launchers and projectiles pose a more complex problem than moving an unspecified ('large') mass from an arbitrary location in the main asteroid belt to a relatively specific location in the Earth - Moon - Sun system.

So, it seems that aim at a ground target from LEO it's easier than aim a rock from the Belt to EO. Too bad. Even so, it doesn't change my main objection to KE weapons: Using space-mounted artillery to influence ground actions would become a waste of time and effort; the problem of supplying the artillery meant that the satellites would soon run out of ammunition and become useless. Therefore, the KE are of

(This posting has already gotten out of hand, so I won't go into some of the other physics that make the space-miner's job rough.)

If you want to comment more on this subject, don’t hesitate and post directly in my journal.

Again, thanks for your time.

* * *


Almost forgot: In regards of such “phraseology” –or more precisely, euphemisms: I don’t think Ali, when he lost both arms or the 3240 proven civilian casualties found something humorous in the war. I suppose those who survive the war can characterizing it either positively or negatively, or not?

[info]orlandobr

July 11 2003, 09:03:27 UTC 8 years ago

Therefore, the KE are of...

...limited military value.

Anonymous

July 11 2003, 10:05:23 UTC 8 years ago

Orlando --

I will have to make the current posting short, due to lack of time rather than lack of interest. I would, however, like to address both forks of this thread in turn.

First, I am afraid I did misread the direction of your argument regarding space-based weapons and space mining. I thought the issue was the technical difficulty of one versus the other. I see now that the direction the thread is headed in is the relative utility of various forms of space-based weapons systems. If Mr. McDonald is amenable to the idea we might, time permitting, tarry down that path either in this comment string or under another posting. (Since the topic of weapons in space is only very tenuously related to the socio-political evolution of space colonies.)

Second, regarding my choice of words, I had not intended to commit euphemism (from the greek, meaning to speak well of) with regard to the events in question. Nor was it my intent to disparage the costs of those events. I was merely attempting to inject a timely example of the concepts in question while leaving the questions associated with their context well outside the current discourse as distracting from the topic at hand.

Finally, thank you for your invitation to post under your journal. I'd be happy to take up the issue in that forum (to the best of my, limited, abilities). I must, however, make known that (since I am currently in the throws of completing an online course and entry into graduate school) my time for such effort is limited and therefore my input would, most likely, be sporadic.

Also, my thanks both for the time you have devoted to the exchange thus far and for your polite, well presented, and humane input. It is indeed a pleasure to discuss such things with references at hand and at the highest levels of rhetorical respect.

Mike Sargent

[info]orlandobr

July 11 2003, 10:36:05 UTC 8 years ago

Second, regarding my choice of words, I had not intended to commit euphemism (from the greek, meaning to speak well of) with regard to the events in question. (…)

OK, Mike, I see your point: let’s not make an issue from a marginal comment. I exaggerated my reaction, and I apologize.


First, I am afraid I did misread the direction of your argument regarding space-based weapons and space mining. I thought the issue was the technical difficulty of one versus the other (…)

It doesn’t matters, what matters to me is that I learned something new today thanks to you. It’s a shame you have limited time to discuss these issues, because I think the development of space-based weapons is very related to socio-political evolution of space colonies…


Finally, thank you for your invitation to post under your journal.

You’re welcome!

Anonymous

July 11 2003, 15:25:22 UTC 8 years ago

Returning to the Pacific Islands/space settlement analogy

Good points, Randy -- I suspect that, given the chance, many members of such marginal colonies would head for the "big city" if they have a chance. But as I've stated before, communities like the Amish might be mightily resistant to this sort of thing (although the Amish are now having their problems, aren't they...). Such colonies will be relatively low-tech, of course -- which will only make it easier for their leaders to restrict access to the vehicles necessary for them to leave (although as Jay Manifold has commented, decent nanotech may well throw a major wrench into this whole scheme!).

I agree with the "Costa Rica" notion, BTW -- if it's possible for small, self-funded groups to emigrate to space, there will be plenty of candidates from second-world countries; they will have more reason to leave than the richer countries' citizens, and this applies to nations as well as smaller groups. Think of the analogies with the Fifteenth-Century New World explorers... who didn't always come from the richest nations, by any means.

On the topic of Thor (I work in the aerospace industry, and I've never heard it called "Mjolnir" -- that appears to be an artifact of the gaming community) and space mining accuracy: almost all schemes I've heard of would require at least some in-flight guidance. Thor does it with aerodynamic forces after the deorbit impulse, and the much-larger and longer-distance mining payloads would likely do it with a mass driver (possibly the same one they used for all their impulse needs) or possibly an ion engine. The only concept I recall which didn't specify midcourse correction was the occasional lunar-mining/L-5 colony proposal (a la O'Neill) which relied instead on net capture at the L-5 point; the mass driver of course has the feedback necessary to guarantee the trajectory, which is fairly short anyway (even some of our recent Mars probes needed very little course correction).

By the way, don't write Thor off: it's just been proposed again (http://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story/0,12271,988612,00.html).

Anonymous

July 11 2003, 15:26:17 UTC 8 years ago

Re: Returning to the Pacific Islands/space settlement analogy

Eh, that one was me...

Troy

[info]rfmcdpei

July 13 2003, 09:34:36 UTC 8 years ago

Re: Returning to the Pacific Islands/space settlement analogy

Good points, Randy -- I suspect that, given the chance, many members of such marginal colonies would head for the "big city" if they have a chance. But as I've stated before, communities like the Amish might be mightily resistant to this sort of thing (although the Amish are now having their problems, aren't they...). Such colonies will be relatively low-tech, of course -- which will only make it easier for their leaders to restrict access to the vehicles necessary for them to leave (although as Jay Manifold has commented, decent nanotech may well throw a major wrench into this whole scheme!).

This is probably the only way to retain autonomous small communities; that, and using high-impulse space propulsion systems to scatter colonies out distantly, deep into the Kuiper Belt.

I agree with the "Costa Rica" notion, BTW -- if it's possible for small, self-funded groups to emigrate to space, there will be plenty of candidates from second-world countries; they will have more reason to leave than the richer countries' citizens, and this applies to nations as well as smaller groups. Think of the analogies with the Fifteenth-Century New World explorers... who didn't always come from the richest nations, by any means.

This actually touches upon something I was planning to explore in my next posting in this series. Great minds think alike as do ours, eh? ;-)

And the news about Thor is interesting. Seems that between that and the revived DynaSoar we're looking at reviving quite a few old aerospace technologies.

Anonymous

July 14 2003, 07:57:37 UTC 8 years ago

Re: Returning to the Pacific Islands/space settlement analogy

Troy --

First, thanks for pointing out that my intellectual fly was open re: Mjolnir/Thor.

(Axiom of Modern Forensics: "When debating in the virtual library, always know where the fiction section starts. . .and ends.")

In my defense I'm sure that, were Thor ever to have made it to the hardware stage, SOME wag would have dubbed the projectile or one of it's major components with that moniker (I'm also in the industry and it's just the nature of the community).

Your point about midcourse correction touches on elements that were to be mentioned in my long-winded post above, especially the payload and energy penalties of having to bring a midcourse engine along for the ride versus being able to use aerodynamic forces for the job.

Thanks for the pointer to the Guardian article, I'm reviewing it now and might have to change my tune as a result.

-- Mike Sargent

[info]creases

July 27 2004, 06:16:08 UTC 7 years ago

These are all good points, but I don't understand whether you think this spells doom or victory for the notion of establishing feasible new space nations. Who are you assuming will found the most productive colonies, the ones that will attract migrants from other, less successful colonies?

[info]rfmcdpei

July 27 2004, 11:42:41 UTC 7 years ago

I'm assuming the the polities most likely to establish the most viable space colonies will be those polities which have the greatest resources available to be provided to their colonies. The efficiency of the transfer of resources is open to question, of course.

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