Randy McDonald ([info]rfmcdpei) wrote,
@ 2004-02-26 11:10:00
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Current mood: frustrated

A Case of Bad Argumentation
Shmuley Boteach, in the Jerusalem Post, on South African opinions towards Israel, suggests that "[f]ar from being a white, colonial settlement, the establishment of Israel is analogous to the case of American blacks who had been forcibly removed from Africa returning to create Liberia."

If only he knew what Liberia was actually like.


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(Anonymous)
2004-02-27 04:57 am UTC (link)
Yeesh. Bad argument, especially since Liberia was a genuine apartheid state for much of its history. I'm tempted to shrug my shoulders and say "it's Shmuley Boteach," but still.

Israel is a colonial settlement (albeit not a "white" one given that Mizrahim are a majority among Israeli Jews). That doesn't damn Israel forever any more than it does the United States - but will color the views of those who have been on the receiving end of colonialism (e.g., the current generation of black South Africans). Those views will change in time, particularly if Israel reaches a modus vivendi with the Palestinians.

Jonathan Edelstein (http://headheeb.blogmosis.com)

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[info]rfmcdpei
2004-02-27 06:59 am UTC (link)
Israel is a colonial settlement (albeit not a "white" one given that Mizrahim are a majority among Israeli Jews).

Israel is to the Middle East what Singapore is to Southeast Asia, perhaps? But then, Singapore hasn't gotten as hostile a reaction from its neighbours as Israel has from the Middle East. Perhaps the relative marginality of the island of Singapore and the British colonial link played to its advantage?

That doesn't damn Israel forever any more than it does the United States - but will color the views of those who have been on the receiving end of colonialism (e.g., the current generation of black South Africans). Those views will change in time, particularly if Israel reaches a modus vivendi with the Palestinians.

Agreed, particularly as the generation displaced during the population exchanges (Arabs from Israel, then Jews from Arab countries) dies out. With luck, at least.

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(Anonymous)
2004-02-27 09:19 am UTC (link)
Israel is to the Middle East what Singapore is to Southeast Asia, perhaps? But then, Singapore hasn't gotten as hostile a reaction from its neighbours as Israel has from the Middle East.

On the other hand, Singapore didn't exactly fit well into the Malaysian federation. There's at least some of the same hostility born of mixed ethnic rivalry and economic envy, and if Singapore hasn't generated hostility outside Malaysia, that may be because it isn't a regional military power. Maybe Israel is the equivalent of Mauritius or Fiji, although these are also relatively marginal examples.

On a completely different topic, another interesting aspect of the Boteach article is the statement, attributed to an assistant rabbi, that "[w]hen it comes to anti-Semitism, we Jews ought to look at ourselves to see what we might have done to provoke it." I wonder how much that attitude might derive from general post-apartheid white contrition; it strikes me that liberal white South Africans are becoming socialized (or socializing themselves) to regard the grievances of colonized peoples as intrinsically just.

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[info]rfmcdpei
2004-02-27 10:12 am UTC (link)
Alexander?

On the other hand, Singapore didn't exactly fit well into the Malaysian federation. There's at least some of the same hostility born of mixed ethnic rivalry and economic envy, and if Singapore hasn't generated hostility outside Malaysia, that may be because it isn't a regional military power. Maybe Israel is the equivalent of Mauritius or Fiji, although these are also relatively marginal examples.

Come to think of it, now, there have been some concerns--raised mainly in Malaysia--about Singaporean defense policy being possibly offensive. Some suggestions were raised that Singapore might try to conquer adjacent Chinese-settled areas in Malaysia. Perhaps there's a closer fit, after all. To say nothing of konfrontasi.

On a completely different topic, another interesting aspect of the Boteach article is the statement, attributed to an assistant rabbi, that "[w]hen it comes to anti-Semitism, we Jews ought to look at ourselves to see what we might have done to provoke it." I wonder how much that attitude might derive from general post-apartheid white contrition; it strikes me that liberal white South Africans are becoming socialized (or socializing themselves) to regard the grievances of colonized peoples as intrinsically just.

[info]halibut, as a South African, would be better able to answer this point than me. I don't think Boteach is a very reliable source. For all I know, he's referring to people who say that Israeli policies in the West Bank and Gaza Strip have been consistently short-sighted and self-destructive anti-Semites.

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(Anonymous)
2004-02-27 10:14 am UTC (link)
Alexander?

No, me. Sorry.

Jonathan Edelstein (http://headheeb.blogmosis.com)

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(Anonymous)
2004-02-27 11:08 am UTC (link)
>Alexander?

No, me. Sorry.

Well, I'm honored to have Jonathan confused for me. :-)

Alexander

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(Anonymous)
2004-02-29 06:10 pm UTC (link)
From Conrad:

On the other hand, Singapore didn't exactly fit well into the Malaysian federation. There's at least some of the same hostility born of mixed ethnic rivalry and economic envy, and if Singapore hasn't generated hostility outside Malaysia, that may be because it isn't a regional military power.

I would say that there are major differences though in the two examples. In Singapore's case the national elite at the time (which was not dominated completely by Chinese ethnic politicians) were very much in favour of the Federation - Lee Kuan Yew went on TV in tears to announce its dismemberment- which ironically was a unilateral action by the Malaysian govt at the time - fearful of Chinese domination. It was also more complicated; mainly because the housing issue and the high proportion of 'squatters' in Singapore at the time meant that it was a breeding ground for militant politics. About 30% of the population on the island lived on these shanty-towns and it led to frequent and explosive rioting - the city-state was very far from the urbanised paradise it was today; and various solutions were being put forward. The pre-PAP elite saw the Briggs plan as a possible solution to forcible relocation and this led to repeated confrontations with the squatter organisations; as the trade unions and the various radical parts of the nationalist movement were dominated by Communist or other hardcore Leftists and with the Communist insurgency smouldering a bit on the Malay penninsula - not to mention the PKI in next door Indonesia; fears of the Communist takeover were very dominant in the minds of the feudal and emerging bourgeois leadership of the Malay Federation and played an important role in kicking Singapore out. The other problem is that in all the major states neighbouring it, the Chinese are a dominant market minority and were not 'expelled' as such to Singapore. The fact that Singapore doesn't make any claims to trans-national loyalty and is not interested in territorial expansion obviously plays a role - as does its careful treatment of its Malay minority. The differences with Israel and the IP conflict are quite clear.

On a completely different topic, another interesting aspect of the Boteach article is the statement, attributed to an assistant rabbi, that "[w]hen it comes to anti-Semitism, we Jews ought to look at ourselves to see what we might have done to provoke it."

Interesting but this is an old theme that crops up in different incarnations in different settings; the example that comes to mind is the portrait of anti-Semitism in pre-war Vienna by Von Klemperer. It is to be expected I suppose.

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