Randy McDonald ([info]rfmcdpei) wrote,
@ 2005-09-01 12:48:00
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[BRIEF NOTE] Pamuk and the Armenian Genocide
The Turkish state has decided to prosecute Orhan Pamuk for saying that a million Armenians were killed by the Ottoman state.

Best-selling Turkish novelist Orhan Pamuk faces up to three years in jail for backing allegations that Armenians suffered genocide at Ottoman Turkish hands 90 years ago, his publisher said on Wednesday.

Turkish prosecutors are also investigating comments by Pamuk that some 30,000 Kurds were killed more recently in Turkey in separatist clashes with security forces.

"A lawsuit has been filed against Orhan Pamuk that could result in a three-year prison sentence," Iletisim Publishing said in a statement faxed to Reuters.

Pamuk made his comments about the Armenians and the Kurds during an interview published on Feb 6, 2005, in
Das Magazin, the weekly supplement of Swiss newspaper Tages Anzeiger.

"Thirty thousand Kurds and 1 million Armenians were killed in these lands and nobody but me dares to talk about it," Pamuk was quoted as saying in the interview.

His remarks drew an angry reaction from Turkish nationalists and politicians at the time and the author even received anonymous death threats.

The public prosecutor in Istanbul's Sisli district found Pamuk's remarks violated Turkey's newly revised penal code, which deems denigration of the "Turkish identity" a crime, the publisher of Iletisim, Tugrul Pasaoglu, told Reuters.


Myself, I'm on the record as believing that the Turkish refusal to recognize the Armenian genocide is rooted in Turkish insecurities dating back to the dissolution of the Ottoman Empire, when it seemed quite possible that Turks might lose a viable homeland. This is understandable even if it's still repellent; this can be worked around.

The prosecution of Pamuk, however, is, besides being a crime in itself, a spectacular mistake. A country that prosecutes one of its most famous writers because he agreed with the historical consensus that, yes, there was an Armenian genocide really doesn't strike me as the sort of country capable of living up to the requirements of European Union membership. I very much doubt that a European electorate already predisposed to reject the idea of Turkish membership in the EU will be more generous than me. Tell me, please, how exactly "Turkish identity" is compromised by the recognition that a previous Turkish state committed genocide? Denial's one possible explanation, but it's not a sufficient explanation.

For the time being, all I'll say is that Turkey's recognition of the Armenian genocide in some form should be a prerequisite for Turkish membership in the European Union. I wish Pamuk well in his upcoming court case--hopefully that will change something in his homeland.



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Official Comment by Turkish spokesman
[info]fizzyboot
2005-09-01 05:42 pm UTC (link)
The Turkish Ministry of Foreign Affairs issued a pross release saying "We didn't kill any Armenians".

The press release further commented "and they deserved it anyway".

(Reply to this)

Deniers in the US
(Anonymous)
2005-09-01 05:53 pm UTC (link)
Gunther Lewy a professor at University of Mass has just come out with a book arguing that the Ottoman actions did not constitute genocide. He earlier a book arguing that that the Nazis did not commit genocide against the Roma, only against the Jews. This "Holocaust is Unique" school of genocide denial used to have alot of powerful backers in the US. It might still be the orthodox position in the US academy, I got tired of following it. A summary of Lewy's arguments as to why there was no Armenian Genocide can be found at the website below.

http://www.meforum.org/article/7481

Otto Pohl

(Reply to this) (Thread)

Re: Deniers in the US
(Anonymous)
2005-09-01 06:01 pm UTC (link)
Sorry, I got the url wrong. The correct one is below.

http://www.meforum.org/article/748/

Lewy's book claiming there was no Nazi genocide against the Roma was called the _Nazi Persecution of the Gypsies_.

Otto

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

Re: Deniers in the US
(Anonymous)
2005-09-01 07:47 pm UTC (link)
Turkish writer prosecuted for denying Armenian holocaust.

Therefore, it's the Jews' (and Americans') fault. And people call *me* single-minded.

Right. Otto, you are really Juan Cole. Admit it :)

Angua

http://angua.blogspot.com

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

Re: Deniers in the US
(Anonymous)
2005-09-01 08:24 pm UTC (link)
What? I simply pointed out that Dr. Lewy who used to teach at U. of Mass has just published a book that denies that the Ottoman's committed genocide against the Armenians. His arguments are not any different than the mainstream opinion of many American Jewish scholars such as Stephen Katz. That is that only the Jews suffered genocide in world history. Your insinuations by the way are libelous. I am going to ask Mr. McDonald to warn you about them now.

Otto Pohl

(Reply to this) (Parent)

Re: Deniers in the US
[info]rfmcdpei
2005-09-01 08:38 pm UTC (link)
Let's remain calm and try to avoid ad hominem attacks, please, everyone.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

Re: Deniers in the US
(Anonymous)
2005-09-02 03:45 am UTC (link)
Right. Incidentally, while I dream of the day when "Juan Cole" becomes the byword for "unmediated cow excrement", I don't think we are quite there yet. And, obviously, there is not evidence of reduction in your esteem or earnings. It's not libel by Canadian law. (It also clearly falls under the "fair comment" defense.) I can pull out the chapter and verse, if you like.

(Reply to this) (Parent)


(Anonymous)
2005-09-01 07:56 pm UTC (link)
Randy, obviously this is silly to the extreme, but a couple of thoughts for you:

1. This is a "prosecution". If it ever gets to the "conviction" stage, THEN it will be a problem. For all you know, this is the way the prosecuter is planning to fight this nutty law.

2. Your idea of "living up to the requirements of European Union membership" is not based on, um, actual Europeans. The idea of bloody nationalism, land-love, national pride, and conflicting national narratives is not something contrary to European nations -- it's something intrinsic to them.

http://angua.blogspot.com

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]rfmcdpei
2005-09-01 08:37 pm UTC (link)
1. I disagree. This is a problem comparable to France, say, prosecuted historians and writers who talked about atrocities committed in the course of Algeria's colonization and the war of independence, or Poland prosecuting researchers exploring atrocities committed by the Communist government.

2. Yes, I agree that "bloody nationalism, land-love, national pride, and conflicting national narratives" are common to all European nationalisms, like they're common to all nationalisms--Chinese, Israeli, Argentine, Korean. Looking at Europe, though, it seems as if the rough edges of the nationalism of any country have to be filed down somewhat. Genocide denialism seems to be a no-no.

(Reply to this) (Parent)


(Anonymous)
2005-09-02 04:46 pm UTC (link)
This is a "prosecution". If it ever gets to the "conviction" stage, THEN it will be a problem.

No, it's a problem now. A prosecution is a pretty heavy liability in itself - it costs the defendant lots of time and money, takes him away from other matters and causes serious psychological stress. It's fairly common for repressive governments to bring criminal charges against their critics even if those charges are likely to be dismissed, simply to harass the target, take him out of circulation for a while and discourage other dissidents. This Turkish prosecution is the moral equivalent of Mugabe's treason charges against the MDC leadership, and should be treated as such.

Jonathan Edelstein

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)


(Anonymous)
2005-09-02 05:41 pm UTC (link)
Hmmm. This is, in fact, a very good introspective question for myself -- I tend to look for the best in the Turks, all evidence to the contrary, in a way that I don't for any other government. Is there such a thing as a Turkophile?

Give me a day or two, and I'll write more on the topic.

Angua

(Reply to this) (Parent)


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